Françoise Labelle: “There are things that this government has done that are not OK”

The pre-election haemorrhage of the Mouvement Militant Mauricien (MMM) started with Steven Obeegadoo and Françoise Labelle, when they left to form their own party, the Plateforme Militante. This was followed by Obeegadoo’s announcement that their new party would join the Mouvement Socialiste Militant (MSM). Weekly speaks to Françoise Labelle to guage how they can justify joining a party that they had opposed so vehemently for the last five years.

Last time we sat in this very spot for an interview, you were getting ready to become the speaker of the National Assembly in case the Labour Party and the Mouvement Militant Mauricien (MMM) won the election.  Today, we are here because you left the MMM and have joined the Mouvement Socialiste Militant (MSM). Aren’t you embarrassed?
Let’s first be clear: I haven’t left the MMM. It’s the MMM that left me.

How did the MMM leave you?
When I expressed my opinion on the way things were going, as we were heading straight for the wall, and asked that we rethink our strategy and connect with our people, I was made to leave. You know that the MMM always talks about its branches but as the years went by, we know now that theses branches exist mostly on paper. It’s comforting to say we have 400 branches, but do we have the people? Do we know them? I expressed the opinion that the people are fed up so let’s just go and meet them.

Nobody prevented you from meeting with them.
I cannot pretend to be able to go and talk to 400 branches in the 20 constituencies. We needed a team to do it systematically. Before 2014, I decided not to stand as a candidate and it was after I refused that that I was offered the post of speaker. But I was out there helping the new candidates and meeting people. A week after the result in 2014, those people who had stood as candidates left the constituency but I kept in touch with my old constituency. Then there was the Central Committee (CC) election and I said that there was no need to rush into that since the membership lists in committee branches were not accurate. So, I said let’s go and meet the people to see and confirm that these branches exist and then have the election. For weeks and months, I was struggling with that. As a result, I was insulted and called all sorts of names: latet pagla and latet gate etc. I was called arrogant and so on. But I was not going to stand in that election when I knew that the list of CC members was fake.

Or maybe you were afraid that you might not get elected?
Why should I? I have taken part in this election several times and have been elected. So why be afraid? If 20 years ago, I stood as a candidate in a by-election and I was not afraid, now in an internal party election I am going to be afraid? Without experience, I went as a candidate in a by-election and of the opposition to boot. So what was there to be afraid of in a CC election?

Is that why you left the MMM?
Saying that I left the MMM is not accurate. As I said, it was the MMM that left me. Others were pushed out. Now imagine in a meeting where someone who just joined the party a month earlier stands and says that for those who don’t agree with the party line, the door is open, go. And everyone just laughs along?

Fair enough. But for someone who left the party on principle, do you find it normal to join a party like the MSM?
I am not joining the MSM party. One of the first conditions is that the Plateforme Militante keeps its identity. We will collaborate with the MSM, but I have not joined the party. The Plateforme will remain distinct,

Do you mean the Plateforme of two people?
It’s not just two people.

How many are there? Let’s be realistic, you don’t have like hundreds of people, do you?
We do have hundreds.

Where are they hiding?
If you had sent a journalist to our assembly of delegates, he would have seen our hundreds of delegates. They were there. They voted unanimously to collaborate with the MSM.

And you have no problem joining forces with a party that you campaigned against, saying it’s a party where there is no democracy, a family party?
When we started the Plateforme, what I said to the people who came and joined us was that we are going to listen to you. We are not going to do what the MMM did: Just take a decision and impose it. Before the assembly, we went to our different regional platforms, in no.16, no.19, no.10 and so on and listened to them. Our dream would have been to face the election as a third force.

Why don’t you if you have so many followers?
As you said, you must be realistic. After just one year, we cannot do that.

By ‘do that’, do you mean you cannot get into power on the strength of your principles?
We do not compromise on principle, but our party is a new party. We are not present in all the constituencies. We don’t have money for 60 candidates. Like it or not, no party can contest elections without money.

Won’t people who believe in you donate in support of your cause?
After one year, we realised we cannot go alone. When we went to our regional platforms, there were some who said we should go on our own, but we don’t have the money for it.

What you are telling me is that you are joining the MSM because they have the money that you don’t.
No, what I am telling you is that the Plateforme Militante is not a big enough party to go alone in elections.

You stressed the lack of funds.
In the past year, if we had had funds, we would have paid people for communication, for research and all the other work that a political party needs. Unfortunately, we don’t.

You have only been in this Plateforme for one year, are you in that much of a hurry to get into power that you are talking about money, communication, paying professionals, etc.?
Is there any political party that can grow without having all this?

Rezistans ek Alternativ and Lalit are not joining any big political party and are growing. Couldn’t you have done the same?
How long have they been there for?

A long time but they have been growing slowly. Do you prefer to sacrifice your principles to get into power quickly or invest in the long term?
There is one thing; I do believe that if you want to bring changes, you can shout from the rooftops as long as you want, but to change things, you have to be in power.

You have already started talking about the urge to be in power and justify it?
When our delegates came, we said we were going to listen to what they were going to say.

So was it the delegates who decided for you?
Yes, of course.

That’s what every party says when they know they have done something morally wrong or reprehensible, isn’t it?
Most of the people joining us are from the MMM. We have newcomers too, but most are from the MMM. They have been struggling for 50 years. We do have people who have been struggling for that long.

Struggling for what?
For changes in the country, for new ideas to come in.

They have been doing that from the opposition benches, haven’t they? What you want is power, isn’t it?
It’s not just power for the sake of it. What is the final objective of a party? To bring changes and bring some ideas for a better society. The delegates who were there said we must get into power for that but we know that the Plateforme won’t get power on its own. Let’s be realistic: There are two major blocs. The MMM is out. When you have so many people leaving, it’s very sad. So that leaves two major blocs: the Labour Party and the MSM. So we asked the delegates, ‘With whom do you think we should collaborate?

Did you, yourselves, have any preferences?
When I have given my word, my personal feelings are immaterial.

So if the delegates had decided that you should join the Parti Malin, you would have gone and joined them, would you?
I know that these delegates are people of experience. There is no monopoly on knowledge and I know that they would not have asked me to join the Parti Malin.

But they have asked you to join a party that has introduced very repressive laws which you criticised on several occasions. A party which handed power over behind the back of the people. Is that all OK because your delegates said so?
Neither me nor the delegates have said that this is OK. There are things that this government has done that are not OK. I am not going to say that everything is perfect, but we are looking to the future.

But the future is based on trends in the past, isn’t it? A government that has spent Rs19 billion on Safe City cameras to spy on its citizens is not going to become democratic tomorrow, is it?
I am not going to defend anything this government has done wrong. I sincerely hope that we shall help things get better.

Isn’t that daydreaming?
If you don’t dream, you won’t get anything. I dream of a better world.

Then why not just stick it out with the Plateforme and keep on dreaming of a better world?
When you dream, you also have to give yourself the means of realising your dreams.

So the dreams you have are associated with power, are they?
I see that you enjoy this word ‘power’. For you, everything is about power. For me, it’s not a question of power.

Give me one reason why you would join a party with which you don’t agree other than the thirst for power?
There are things over which we agree. The minimum salary, e.g the cleaning ladies who were working for Rs 1,500 and are now earning so much more…

Will you also defend the outrageous level of nepotism?
Why should I? There are wrong things with which I don’t agree.

By joining the party that perpetuated those ‘wrong things’, aren’t you implicitly condoning them?
Which party has not done a single bad thing?

Do you agree with the repressive laws introduced in the last five years? Or maybe you agree with the principle of chasing away a pilot just because he said the prime minister is a ‘fou’. The law is still there and it will be used against other citizens.
People made these laws and people can amend them.

Are you saying you will repeal them if you come to power?
Who am I to say that? I just said we are a small group, and I will not tell you that if we come to power, we will amend this or that law.

Will you go along with them?
No, we will not.

There are only two options. When there is a repressive law, you either repeal it or go along with it.
These are the only two choices?

If there is a third one, I would like you to give it to me.
There can be an amendment.

Some of the repressive laws are amendments to existing laws. Are you saying you will repeal the amendment?
I have never said I will repeal. I said there are things with which I do not agree and things which we appreciate. If we are joining this bloc, there are things that we can do in the future and if there are things that can be corrected, I hope to be in a position to be able to make things better for my country.

What kind of position are you hoping for to make a difference to your country?
When you are in government, whichever position you are in, there are things you do to improve things. I was in government between 2000 and 2005 and then was a Parliamentary Private Secretary (PPS) for a few months and managed to get my voice heard on some issues which I am proud are still there.

Even as a backbencher, don’t you think you can make a difference?
Yes, I do believe I can make a difference. I have done it in the past.

You also brought your contribution as a member of the opposition, didn’t you?
A member of the opposition and a backbencher for the government are not the same thing. This is my personal experience.

Your colleague Steven Obeegadoo said, ‘We are joining the MSM out of obligation’. What does he mean?
You better put that question to Steven.

Fair enough. Let me put the question differently: Are you joining out of obligation?
According to you, what does ‘obligation’ mean?

I don’t know in what sense Steven Obeegadoo used the term. To me it means that you are not joining the MSM wholeheartedly. You are pez nene boire diluile.
Our first option would have been to be a third force, but we are not a third force and we have to join one of the two blocs, one of which will be in power. So we had to make a choice and choose between these two.

Don’t you feel that this move damages your reputation in some way?
When we discussed with the MSM, we agreed to keep our identity.

And how is the ‘identity’ of a tiny Plateforme of two people likely to influence a party?
It’s not just two people; there are all these delegates.

Only two people joined the MSM with the hope of being fielded as candidates for the next election…
We are a tiny group; we don’t expect a tiny group to have 10 or 30 tickets.

So you will be subsumed within the party, won’t you?
I don’t know. If you have two in parliament, there are hundreds out there. We have people who have been mayors and counsellors.

Do you think that this move has damaged your credibility?
I do think the respect is there, because my respect for myself is still there. Can I go and talk openly to people? Yes, I can do that. I know that people know I am not greedy to get into parliament and that you can serve elsewhere too. It’s not just about power because I have my inner power. This is more important for me.

So you feel you still enjoy the same respect, do you?
Yes, because of the messages I have been receiving since Saturday. For example, a son of an old militant in No.16 called me and was very emotional and said I was doing the right thing.

Is it the same No.16 that you are hoping to be fielded in?
I don’t know, but I hope so. It’s a constituency where I have worked.

Some are saying that the reason you and Obeegadoo were asked to join the MSM is because of your ethnic belonging. Does that bother you?
It does. Pradeep Jeeha said that and I am sad that he did. Since May, Pradeep decided not to take part in our meetings and since the beginning of the year, he wanted us to negotiate with the Labour Party. He wanted to go there; he said he did not want to work with the Jugnauths. In January, he said that he had already got an offer from the Labour Party and wanted us to follow him.

And you were not agreeable to go with the Labour Party?
I said we should listen to what the delegates say because we have experienced what happens when we do not listen to the people. It’s still fresh in our mind. This is the promise I made and I have to stand by that. I have very good friends in the Labour Party and I had Labour friends long before 2014.

If you had won the election in 2014 and were the speaker of the National Assembly, would we be in the same situation today?
Of course not; it is not the same situation.

You would not have considered the MMM dictatorial or left, would you?
I don’t know sincerely. When I reach the point where I cannot take things, I just move away silently.

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